Jack Heckathorne - Posted by Sysop on Saturday, September 5, 2009 2:59 - 0 Comments 3,645 views
The Ice “Age”?
Separation of Church and God, The Final Judgment
The Ice “Age”?
By Jack Heckathorne
Whenever I debate this topic with anyone I always ask the question “What evidence exists today that proves there was ever an ice age?” The answer is inevitably the same. The uniformitarianists and creationists alike will point to large bedrock formations in normally warm climates which have scratches and grooves on them which could have only been made by large masses of ice scraping against them. This is not a satisfactory answer. This only proves that there was ice in normally warm climates and does nothing to prove an “age.” The uniformitarian’s believe that there were somewhere between 4 and 30 ice ages. There are many theories of how an ice age could have occurred but they all have fatal flaws, are imagined and not provable, or are simply ridiculous, so we will examine a few of the more popular ones before I present the Biblical extrapolation.
Grooves in rock made by ice.
The uniformitarian view:
Plate tectonics is an important process influencing when ice ages occur, and the position of the continents is probably one of the most important factors controlling long periods of multiple glaciations. The presence of large land masses at high latitude appears to be a prerequisite for the development of extensive ice sheets, because the large accumulations of ice associated with ice sheets cannot form over the ocean.
During the current ice age, which began slightly less than 3 million years ago, several large land masses have been at high latitude. These include Antarctica, much of North America and much of Eurasia. This continental configuration led to extensive glaciations of both North America and Eurasia.
During the ice age that occurred in the Pennsylvanian and Permian, the southern portion of the super continent Pangaea was at the South Pole. The result was extensive glaciations of what is now Africa, South America, India, Antarctica, Australia, and the Arabian peninsula.
The position of the continents during the Late Proterozoic glaciation (around 700 million years ago) is not well-known. Evidence of glaciers exists from North America, Australia, and Africa.
It is an assumption that the whole world was glaciated at all because of any world wide condition. As I said before there is only evidence of ice present in warm climates not evidence of an age. The ages and the position of the continents are only imagined because evidence for the existence of ice in warm climates does exist. So, they have to move the land around to fit their ice age assumptions and they have to give it a lot of time and a cause to make the age happen. In addition the continents would have had to move around four times and back in order to produce four ice ages. This is conjecture not based on any true knowledge.
Plate tectonics probably contributes to the development of long periods with many glaciations in a second, more subtle way. Plate movements sometimes cause uplift of large continental blocks. Major uplift can cause profound changes in the global oceanic and atmospheric circulation patterns. Changing circulation patterns cause climate change. Some scientists hypothesize that climatic changes cause by uplift are critical to the development of ice ages.
Over the past 15 million years, the continents have risen about 600 meters (2000 feet) on average. The uplift of the Himalayas and the Tibetan Plateau probably contributed to the initiation of the current cool period.
Similar tectonic uplift appears to have been involved in the three other long, ice age intervals.
If this uplift idea is true then why are we not still in an ice age? If the continents have risen 2000 feet in the last 15 million years to cause an ice age what happened to end the ice age? If you explain an ice age you must also explain how it would have ended.
Reduction of CO2 in the atmosphere
A general reduction in amount of CO2 in the atmosphere may contribute to the development of ice ages. Carbon dioxide is an important greenhouse gas. Decreases in the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere may lead to global cooling.
Many processes can cause a long-term decrease in the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. These processes include many complex interactions among organisms, ocean currents, erosion, and volcanism. Important relationships exist between ice ages and the composition of the atmosphere; however, many scientists are unsure whether the changes in atmosphere cause cool periods or whether cool periods cause atmospheric changes. Also, many scientists are not sure the magnitude of past CO2 changes was large enough to initiate ice ages.
What caused the reduction of CO2 in the atmosphere? Cool periods? Scientists are doubtful about their own idea here. How could cool periods cause atmospheric changes if cool periods are caused by atmospheric changes or how could atmospheric changes cause cool periods if atmospheric changes were caused by cool periods? This is not science it is just more speculation.
The Earth’s orbit varies through time. Important parameters that vary include the eccentricity of the orbit around the sun, the tilt of the Earth’s axis, and the direction the North Pole points. Variation in these three factors changes the amount and distribution of incoming solar radiation. Variations in the distribution of solar radiation affect and initiate glaciations.
However, the variation of the orbital parameters seems to be on too short a time scale to explain the timing of the long, cool intervals with many glaciations. Variations in orbital factors are probably more important in controlling the advance and retreat of large glaciers during the four long cool periods.
This graph shows the variation in the eccentricity of the Earth’s orbit over the last 750,000 years. The blue line traces the eccentricity. The orange line shows today’s value for comparison. The data are from Berger and Loutre 1991.
The graph is made up to demonstrate the earths elliptical orbit for the past 750,000 years but only about the first 1/100” (if any) of the blue line would be measurable because man had no instruments to measure the earths orbit over the past 750,000 years. Notice how minor the orbital change is in the past 100 years or so and then how dramatically it changes from 100,000 years ago to 750,000 years ago. This is not science and this chart is not based on anything factual. It was based on a computer model and a computer model is only as accurate as the information put into it. Many assumptions were made so it amounts to nothing more than speculation and was designed to fit their ice age theory. It is self serving evidence.
The Creationists View:
The creationist’s generally accepted view is that there was only one ice age and it occurred for about several hundred years after Noah’s flood. However, there are problems with the creationists view because in the end volcanoes have to be manufactured for a hundred years so that the sky is blocked out and the plants die leaving a desolate and cold world. The theory also does not account as to how only a handful of animals could survive under such frozen conditions and spread to other parts of the world with no plants to eat There were only two of each kind of animal and if either one of them died the whole “kind” would have become extinct. If this is not enough, the Bible says there was no ice age after the flood. God made a promise to Noah immediately after the flood.
“As long as the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter and day and night shall not cease.” (Genesis 8:22)
This sounds to me like the condition of the earth today. Seedtime and harvest, summer and winter heat and cold, day and night are what we have now. The fact that God said “As long as the earth remaineth” in other words from now on these conditions will not stop (shall not cease), proves my point. If what God said is true and the conditions in the day of Noah have not ceased then the conditions that we have today are the exact same conditions as Noah had just after the flood and thus no ice age after the flood
Notice that God did not say cool summers because he added “heat and cold, seed time and harvest indicating plant life, day and night indicating a normal day night cycle and then he says it won’t ever cease as long as the earth remains. How plain can he make it? This verse simply leaves no room for a hundred years or so of an earth covered with ice and volcanic ash.
If I were an evolutionist debating a creationist about the ice age I would borrow someone’s Bible and read Genesis 8:22 and then close the Bible and declare victory.
If the ice age had occurred before the worldwide flood the evidence for it would have been buried by the flood and we wouldn’t know anything about it. There is tremendous evidence for a worldwide flood. So, if an ice age didn’t happen before the flood or after the flood when did it happen? Sorry to disappoint you but if the worldwide flood actually occurred an ice “age” never happened period. No one disagrees today that about one third of the earth’s surface had ice on it the disagreement is about how and when it got there.
It has often been said that when anyone attempts to explain the ice age he should be prepared to explain how ice and heat could exist in the same place and at the same time. This of course seems impossible to scientists be he a uniformitarianist or a creationist so they come up with theories changing the earths climate.
All this time they have been looking for some sort of worldwide conditions which would cause the earth to freeze for a long period of time and then unfreeze for a long period of time without killing off the plant and animal life as we know it today. The fact is that we know of no such conditions which would cause this to happen. All of the theories out there in one way or another change the conditions of the earth as we know it to accommodate the theory. Scientists move around land masses, deplete C02 in the atmosphere, make up volcanic eruptions for hundreds of years change the earths orbit etc, etc ,etc but none of these things are known to have actually occurred and even if they had occurred some other event would be required to undo the process and end the ice age. Furthermore, there are numerous plants and animals which could not have survived the extremely cold temperatures of an ice age for hundreds, thousands or millions of years but nevertheless are living today.
The Bible is not a science book but it does mention things in it that science didn’t discover for centuries later. For example; in Isaiah 40:22 (712 BC) it says “it is he that sitteth upon the circle (sphere in the original language) of the earth. Scientists believed that the earth was flat until Columbus, a Christian, proved it was round in 1492.
In Job 26:7 Job made the statement;
“He stretched out the North over the empty place; and hangeth the earth upon nothing”
This was around 1520BC. The concept of the earth floating in space was not known by science until relatively recently.
Many other such examples exist but I mention these to demonstrate that the Bible is authoritative, true and can be relied upon when it makes statements about the earth.
The Biblical View:
On the second day of creation God:
“…made the firmament (atmosphere) and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament and it was so.” (Genesis 1:7)
In other words God put vapor above the earth and water on the earth. Now the earth has water vapor in its atmosphere. This canopy was most likely evenly distributed around the earth and rather transparent and would have caused a universally warm earth because sunlight would have heated the vapor and been diffused all over the earth. There is much evidence of a universally warm earth. Tropical plants such as palm trees have been found fossilized in Alaska, reptiles and dinosaurs have been found in the poles and coal deposits have been discovered in Antarctica. Not only can reptiles not live in the cold areas but in a frozen wasteland there would have been nothing for them to eat.
The original earth was quite different than it is today Not only was there a vapor canopy but it has not rained and therefore there were no clouds as we have today. (Gen 1:5). The earth was watered by a mist arising from the ground.
“But there went up a mist from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.”(Gen 2:6)
This was probably a system of geysers. We see them today at Yellowstone National Park and other places but there is no reason why many more could not have existed in a preflood world. There are at present about 1000 active geysers in the world today. With relatively few people in the world in the first hundred years or so not many would have been needed in any one place. In addition many were undoubtedly destroyed in the worldwide flood.
When Adam and Eve sinned and were cast out of the Garden of Eden God cursed the ground. Up until this point they had lived the easy life in the garden simply pulling off fruit from a variety trees for food. The trees had been watered by the mist from the earth in a warm year round climate caused by the diffusion of heat from the vapor canopy.
“…cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow thou shalt eat of it all the days of thy life…in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground. (Genesis 3:18-19)
In other words God told Adam that he would have to grow his own food from now on. It is interesting that man is the only life form on earth that has to grow his own food. So, out with the mist watering system, fruit trees and the vapor canopy and in with rain, drought, hot summers, clouds, cold winters, clothes, thorns and thistles and sweat. If the vapor canopy had continued after the curse then so would the fruit trees etc. and the earth wouldn’t have really changed much. It should be noted here that the rain at the time of Noah’s flood had to have come from condensed clouds not an evenly distributed vapor canopy thus indicating that the canopy did not exist just prior to the flood but that it went out of existence sometime prior.
At this time the earth’s climate would have been very similar to the earth of today. Glaciers, ice sheets, icebergs and so on would have formed in the poles and cold regions from the time of the curse until the flood. By using Genesis 5 as a guide we can derive that about 1650 years elapsed from the time of Adam to Noah.
For those of you who believe that it takes hundreds of thousands of years for glaciers to form read this about the lost squadron; www.answersingenesis.org/docs/233.asp
Man had become corrupt and God had a plan to wipe out man, animals and the original earth which he had created.
“And the Lord God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continuously… And the Lord God said I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man and beast and the creeping things and the fowl of the air…” (Gen 6:5-7)
“And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is before me for the world is filled with violence through them and behold; I will destroy them with the earth.” (Gen 6:13)
So now God instructs Noah to build an ark which was actually a large wooden barge with no steering mechanism but the dimensions of it were almost exactly like modern day ocean vessels. Because of it’s width to length ratio it was indeed a very seaworthy vessel even by today’s standards.
Water from above and below:
It is possible that the earth’s population could have been near a billion at the time of the flood. Only eight were saved; Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives. When the ark was completed and all of the animals and people were aboard it was the second month of the year and the seventeenth day of the month and it started to rain and continued to rain for 40 days and 40 nights (960 continuous hours). On the same day the fountains of the great deep were broken up. This would have been underwater earthquakes and volcanic eruptions spewing up steam. Water from underneath the ocean floor was forced out causing the oceans to over fill and in conjunction with the complete collapse of the moisture in the atmosphere caused the entire earth to be covered in water.
At the end of the 40 days the rain and the fountains of the great deep were stopped. (Gen 8:2). When this occurred the atmospheric conditions were unique in all of history. The earth was totally emerged in water and there were no clouds or vapor of any kind anywhere in the world. All of the water was upon the surface of the earth.
Heat from the sun was concentrated at the equator even more so than today because there was nothing in the atmosphere to diffuse it. At the same time, and for the same reason, the poles would have been extremely cold, even colder than today. The Bible says that all of the mountains were covered by water 15 cubits (about 22 1/2 ft) above the tops.
“And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth and all the high hills that were under the whole heaven were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail and the mountains were covered” (Genesis 7:19-20)
The mountains of the preflood era were most likely lower than the mountains of today. We find that much of the mountains are made up of sedimentary rock which was laid down by water and contain marine fossils. Some believe that the mountains were uplifted after the flood a matter of thousands of feet but I do not. I do not see how so many fragile marine fossils that are found on the tops of mountains could have been pushed up that much and still be intact. Especially after the flood when the fountains of the great deep were now empty and there was a void where the water once was and no longer any pressure. It seems more likely to me that the land surface may have sunk somewhat after the flood making the mountains appear as if they were pushed up.
The oceans of that time would have been much shallower than today. The continental shelf, which is the natural boundary of the ocean, is now far extended into the oceans and far below water indicating that today’s oceans are overfilled.
We see evidence today that much of the ocean bottoms have sunk possibly several miles. This of course is where the flood waters receded to and then the water overfilled the oceans. With a void now under the ocean floor where water once was, the combined weight of the water from the rain, the original water of the ocean and the water which was originally under the oceans, now above the ocean floor, the oceans were overfilled and the ocean floor was forced downward in a short period of time.
If you have Google Earth on your computer you explore the continental shelf around all of the continents. The light blue areas in the photo are the continental shelf and were once above water.
Today we see a surprising number of cities existing deep underwater. Off of the western coast of India a city has been discovered recently, which is one hundred and twenty feet under water in the Gulf of Cambay. It measures five miles long by two miles wide. Things such as human remains, tools, pottery etc. have been recovered and confirm that this was indeed a very old human civilization. Secular theorists say that it was flooded when the ice caps melted at the end of the “last” ice age. The problem is that they are estimating the city to be some ninety five hundred years old and they say that the last ice age ended twenty thousand years ago. Is it just me or is something not adding up here?
Yet another underwater city has been discovered off of the southeastern coast of India near Mahabalipuram at about twenty five feet deep. Ancient artifacts and carvings and perhaps even some kind of religious temple has been discovered. It has been estimated to be five thousand years old and of course the last ice age buried it as well according to some. By the way, the flood of Noah is estimated by theologians to have occurred approximately forty five hundred years ago.
A six thousand year old city some two thousand feet below the surface has been discovered off the coast of Cuba. The ocean has indeed been overfilled greatly.
As the flood waters were rising the ice at the poles, including ice shelves, sheets, glaciers and ice bergs would have floated up with the water. Remember that the flood waters covered the mountains by a depth of 15 cubits. This means that all of the ice on the entire earth would have been floating around and breaking up. In addition a lot of ice could have formed simply because of the cold conditions. The altitude of the flood waters combined with the lack of diffused sunlight and no land masses to retain heat would have made the poles very cold indeed.
Even today we see huge icebergs. C-18 for example is an iceberg in Antarctica which measures 47 miles x 4.6 miles and is several times the size of Manhattan, New York.
Dr. Stephen E. Bruneau Ph.D., P.Eng has this to say about icebergs:
“The largest Northern Hemisphere iceberg on record was encountered near Baffin Island in 1882. It was 13 km long, 6 km wide and had a freeboard (height above water) of about 20 m. The mass of that iceberg was in excess of 9 billion tonnes – enough water for everyone, in the world to drink a liter a day for over 4 years. Despite this staggering statistic, icebergs from Antarctica may be many times larger than this. In 1987 an iceberg with an area of 6350 square kilometers broke from the Ross ice shelf. That berg had a mass of around 1.4 trillion tonnes and could have supplied everyone in the world with 240 tonnes of pure drinking water.” Today Antarctica has an average ice thickness of 2,133 meters (7,000 ft).
These large ice masses tend to get blocked in and sometimes never make it out the open sea today, but with all of the ice floating and breaking up due to the rising flood waters, all ice on earth would be free to move including entire ice shelves, sheets, icebergs and glaciers.
With the ice now floating around and the waters starting to recede after the 150 days we find an interesting and often overlooked verse in the Bible.
“…and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged” (Gen 8:1b)
What else would a worldwide wind do under these circumstances? It would cause the ice to move. Not only that but the ice masses would be unencumbered by any land masses and be free to go where ever the wind blew them, anywhere in the world. While they were moving the waters were going down. The ark came to rest in the mountains of Ararat in Turkey in the seventh month on the seventeenth day of the month exactly five months after the flood had started. (Gen. 8:4) The waters continued to recede until the first day of the tenth month at which time Noah could see the tops of other mountains. (Gen. 8:5)
Then Noah sent out the dove to see if the waters had receded but the bird came back to him. Then he waited another seven days and sent out the dove once again. This time the dove returned with an olive leaf. This indicated to Noah that the waters were drying up rather rapidly now and plant life was already growing down the mountain. Noah waited another seven days and sent out the dove again and it did not return so Noah knew the ground had dried up. On the twenty seventh day of the second month the earth was dried up. (Gen 8:14)
Now while Noah was doing all of this the ice was descending around the world along with the flood waters. When the ice finally reached the ground, which was very soft having been underwater for a year, it would have been a rather violent event. The sheer weight of the ice would have caused the grooving and scratching of rocks that we see today. In addition, the ice would have carved out depressions in the earth. When the ice eventually melted the water would have run off except in the depressions which it had formed. Today we call these lakes. The runoff could have caused streams to form. Although the original flood runoff most likely caused many of the large rivers the melting ice could be why see small streams connected to lakes today. If you think about it how else would so many lakes have been formed all over the world?
At this time the earth’s climate would have been the same as today’s climate. Since the great wind pushed the ice all over the world the ice would have existed in the normally hot areas of the world for a time until it eventually all melted. It would have melted in the warm areas and stayed frozen in the cold areas. As the ice melted it may have slid from higher elevations to lower elevations causing grooving in rocks and even more of the odd geological features that we see in today’s world. Glaciers are moving even today but only in the cold regions of the earth.
In today’s world we see millions of large and small boulders sitting on the ground, mountainsides and hills. In the early 1990’s my son and I were on our way to the Grand Canyon from Houston when we came upon this place called “Texas Canyon” which, oddly enough, is in Arizona. We were astonished to see so many huge boulders at such a high altitude piled up on top of each other all the way up to the tops of the mountains. I remember asking myself “how in the world did all of those huge boulders get way up there?” Scientists say that boulders were frozen inside ice sheets and when the ice sheets melted they were deposited on the ground but they reject a worldwide flood. The question is, how did the ice sheets deposit the boulders at high altitudes on the tops of high mountains and in hot areas of the earth if there were no floodwaters?
One interesting thing is that the boulders are granite and the rocks under it are sedimentary. Sedimentary rock is laid down by water and granite is not. So, this means that the boulders came from somewhere after the sedimentary rock was laid down. Granite is a “basement rock” and should be located under sedimentary rock. Ice sheets are formed on land by the piling up of snow in areas where it will stay frozen year round. It packs down and eventually becomes an ice sheet. Whatever is on the ground rocks, plants and any other debris will become part of the ice sheet. If the ice “age” happened after the flood or before the flood and the ice had actually formed in place then neither the creationist view nor the uniformitarianist view could explain the boulders on top of mountains or sedimentary rock. So, first the water bearing sediments came then later the ice sheets descended containing the rocks and eventually melted leaving the rocks on the mountains or wherever they happened to land.
Whatever put those boulders on top of those mountains did it all at once. They sure didn’t form there. Why couldn’t the floodwaters have simply allowed the ice sheets to move around and descend upon mountains, flatlands and warm areas then sculpt the earth, melt and then deposit the rocks? It should be said that the flood waters are quite capable of moving boulders but it seems to me that at high altitudes the ice sheet idea is more logical.
Granite boulders at Texas Canyon in Arizona
Any volcanic ash that was produced at the beginning of the flood would have been washed away by 40 days and nights of the rainfall and the worldwide wind. Even if there had been some ash left in the atmosphere it would have settled like volcanic ash does today. There is no reason to believe that the earth would have had continuous volcanic eruptions for several hundred years after the flood. This makes no sense. Most of the pressure would have been relieved during the 40 days of rain. The Bible tells us that the fountains of the great deep were broken open. The great deep is the ocean. The ash wouldn’t have made it to the atmosphere because it was under water. The Bible says nothing about volcanoes on land. If the earth had been covered with so much volcanic ash for such a long time the whole earth would have frozen or at least most of it and with no sunlight all of the plants would have died. There certainly would not have been any “heat and cold, seedtime and harvest, summer and winter, day and night” Life could not have existed that long in such conditions.
Return of Plant life:
The fact that the dove returned to Noah with an olive leaf in his beak indicates that plant life was already growing even before the waters were dried up. The rainbow which God set in the cloud is important. Not only does it signify that God will never again destroy the human race with a flood but it also demonstrates that at the end of the flood there was sunlight, a feature necessary for a rainbow and that the sky was not full of volcanic ash. The plants would have quickly returned and the animals would have multiplied. Sometime later Noah even grew a vineyard. Then he made wine, got drunk and took his clothes off in his tent at age 601! (Gen. 9: 20-21) You don’t take your clothes off in an ice age and go to bed. There simply had to be sunlight and warm conditions to grow grapes and other plants for food in the years following the flood not only for the people but for the animals as well. Noah lived another 350 years after the flood.
Clouds and Rainbows
“I do set my bow in the cloud and it shall be for a token of a covenant (agreement) between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass when I bring a cloud over the earth that the bow shall be seen in the cloud and I will remember my covenant which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh” (Gen:9 13-14)
With the oceans bottoms sunk down as they are now it is now impossible for the entire earth to ever be flooded again.
A Clear Warning:
A uniformitarianist is a person who believes that the earth is the same today as it was in the past and that everything has happened by chance processes over eons of time. For the most part they don’t believe anything that the Bible says and they scoff at those of us who do. Many reject a creator and try diligently to persuade others to believe the same. The Bible predicted these people, however, and has a word for them:
“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers walking after their own lusts and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep (ancestors died) all things continues as they were from the beginning of creation. For this they are willingly ignorant of (ignoring the evidence), that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved by fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.” (2 Peter 3:3-7)
“Because that which may be known of God is manifest (made real) in them; for God hath showed it to them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things which are made even his eternal power and Godhead so that they are without excuse. (On the Day of Judgment) Because, when they knew God, Neither were they thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (Without the light of Christ) Professing themselves to be wise they became fools.” (Romans 1:19-22)
The New Earth:
When God destroyed the old world he caused a new world to be formed. I believe that God with his foreknowledge designed the earth to be flooded once and be redesigned by the same catastrophe which he used to pass judgment on the wickedness of man. I do not believe that he allowed an arbitrary ice age to happen before or after the flood. Why would he allow and ice age after the flood when only a handful of animals and 8 people were having a new beginning?
“While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter and day and night shall not cease.” (Gen. 8:22)